Ep 28: Interviews 101 – What You Need to Know (and What No One Tells You)

Mare Forfa (00:16)
Welcome back to the Nurses Doing GAMSAT podcast. This is where we guide you through every step of your medical school journey. I’m your host, Mare, and today I’m joined by someone who knows this process inside out. That is Bhakti, our lead interview tutor, a former bootcamp member and now a first-year medical student at Notre Dame in Perth. She’s been exactly where you want to be, and she’s here today to help you avoid the common pitfalls. So, welcome back to you. Welcome. So excited to have you.

Bhakti (00:48)
Pipples.
Thank you, I’m excited to be here as well.

Mare Forfa (00:58)
It is fun. Bhakti and I have worked together for a couple of years, so I think it’s super fun to be able to come back when you’re so busy at uni that, like, eye roll, you know—that eye roll emoji.

Bhakti (01:11)
Yeah. What are you talking about?

Mare Forfa (01:16)
I totally have a life, I really do. So, this kind of episode is for you if you’ve smashed the GAMSAT, you’ve submitted an application and now the interview has landed in your inbox. This is the final gate. It’s often worth 50% or more.

Bhakti (01:18)
Yeah, laugh or you’ll cry.

Mare Forfa (01:39)
Super important. In today’s episode, we’re going to be breaking down what you’re walking into and how to walk out with confidence. As always, you’ll find all the resources we mention today in the show notes. If you have any questions, drop them in the comments or message us, because Bhakti and I—and really the whole team—want to make episodes that you need. So, let’s start with why interviews matter.
To me, what most people don’t realise is they often count for 50% or more of the criteria for getting in. Most people think, oh, it’s going to be 33% GPA, 33% GAMSAT and then 33% interviews. But that’s just not the case, right? When you found this out, how did you feel, Bea?

Bhakti (02:37)
You kind of have to realise that even getting to the interview depends on having a good GPA and GAMSAT. But once you get there, the interview is the deal breaker. That adds so much more pressure because suddenly it’s not just 30%, it’s literally whether I get in or not. So now it’s about whether I’m the kind of person they want in med school. That’s a lot of pressure, but yeah—it’s a huge part of your application.

Mare Forfa (03:15)
I helped a student once who had a 68 GAMSAT and a GPA of around 6.6 or 6.7—solid, but nothing outrageous—and she got in. Meanwhile, I spoke to another student with a 72 GAMSAT and the same GPA, who didn’t get in, same university. And he was like, what?

Bhakti (03:20)
Mm. Yeah.

Mare Forfa (03:44)
I was like, dude, it was obviously your interview. What did you do? He admitted he’d only practised with friends and didn’t take it seriously. I don’t think he realised the interview counted for so much. You can put in months of study for the GAMSAT—some people even take two years—but if you blow the interview, you’re not going to get in. That’s a big pitfall people don’t realise.

Bhakti (04:18)
Mm.

Mare Forfa (04:44)
You could be a GAMSAT genius, but if your interview goes badly, you’re not going to get in, unfortunately. So, explain to me the different types of interviews, because there’s more than one. And that’s another thing most people don’t realise.

Bhakti (04:52)
Yeah, so there are three broad types of interview styles depending on which university you apply to. They’re all testing for similar things but in different formats. So, there are panel interviews, MMIs, and then CASPer-style interviews as well.

Mare Forfa (05:24)
Everyone expects the MMIs. I feel like everyone thinks they’re all MMIs.

Bhakti (05:29)
Yeah, they’re not all MMIs. You might walk in and suddenly it’s a panel interview, and you’re like, I have no idea what that is.

Mare Forfa (05:34)
That’s when they go sphincter-clenching.

Bhakti (05:42)
Exactly. And these can either be online or in person as well. When I sat my interview, it was talking to a camera, while some of my bootcamp friends had in-person panel interviews with a board of people sitting in front of them.
So, panel interviews are basically when you have two or three people asking structured questions. It’s not strictly timed, and you can go on tangents so they get to know you as a person. The pitfall, though, is if you don’t connect with one of the panel members or mess up early, you’ve got to learn to bounce back, which can be tough.

Mare Forfa (06:34)
That feels just like a job interview. Very job-interview vibes.

Bhakti (06:38)
Yeah, exactly. You’re sitting in front of a couple of people, they ask you questions, and it’s more conversational compared to an MMI, where you’ve got six to ten stations. You’re either talking to a camera or walking into a room with someone stonewalling you. MMI stands for multiple mini interviews—lots of small interviews. You walk into a station, they ask you a question, and you answer it.
The good thing about MMIs is if you mess up one station, you can recover and move to the next one with a fresh start. But it’s very structured and usually very short. You don’t get much time, so there’s little room to improvise. Online ones especially cut you off when the timer ends.

Mare Forfa (07:55)
You can’t really show personality. It’s about answering the question and that’s it. Panel interviews feel a bit softer and more personal, whereas MMIs are like: here’s the question, answer it, move on.

Bhakti (07:59)
Yeah, exactly. I did an MMI and that’s literally how it feels. They’re like: here’s the question, answer it, get out.

Mare Forfa (08:21)
Back in the prehistoric days, when they only did in-person interviews, MMIs worked like this: imagine a corridor with doors along it. They’d ring a bell, you’d read a question taped to the door, then another bell would ring, and you’d walk in. Inside, there might be an actor acting out a scenario, or panel members asking questions. Then another bell, you’d move to the next door.
Nowadays it’s online, but it’s essentially the same thing without the doors—you’re timed, you read the scenario or question, then you answer.

Bhakti (09:06)
Hmm.

Mare Forfa (09:20)
This is where people go wrong—they don’t answer the actual question. They’ll read the scenario and say, “This is what I’d do,” but that’s often not what’s being asked. The question could be, “What are the issues to consider?” or “Who will be impacted by this decision?” If you don’t practise with structure, MMIs are harder than people expect.

Bhakti (10:14)
Exactly. It’s like OSCEs in med school—you walk station to station, ring a bell, and go. If you don’t have structure in how you take a history or perform an exam, you’re sunk. Interviews are the same: you need a structure and a procedure. Not a memorised script, but a fallback structure to guide you if you freeze.

Mare Forfa (10:56)
Answer the bloody question! Remember in bootcamp, I kept saying that: “You didn’t answer the question.” Interviewers have marking criteria. If you don’t answer, they can’t tick the boxes. And it’s not about being right or wrong—there’s no one right answer. It’s about your reasoning and thought process. Anyway, let’s move on. Tell us about CASPer-style interviews.

Bhakti (11:32)
CASPer-style interviews are similar to CASPer itself. You record video responses directly to your webcam, no interviewer on the other end. For unis, they’re cheap and easy to run. For students, though, it can be off-putting—you have to talk to a camera as if it’s a person, and still project confidence.
When I did my Notre Dame interview, it was CASPer-style. We recorded, uploaded, and waited for results. But we actually had to do it twice because of tech failures the first time. That was stressful.

Mare Forfa (13:04)
Oh man. Then you’re second-guessing yourself—did I do better the first or second time? What if the upload fails again? It just adds stress. They really need to get the tech right.

Bhakti (13:09)
Exactly. It’s stressful enough already, then you worry if your video even uploaded.

Mare Forfa (13:26)
So, when you had to redo it, did you just swear your head off?

Bhakti (13:36)
I was in Hong Kong Disneyland when I got the email.

Mare Forfa (13:40)
Talk about ruining your experience!

Bhakti (13:45)
Yep. I got the email saying we had to re-sit, and I called my best friend straight away. They were like, “You poor thing.” The first time was already stressful—then tech failed, and now we had to do it again. Everyone in my cohort still wonders whether the same people would have got in if they’d only marked the first attempt. Crazy.

Mare Forfa (14:25)
What? So everyone had to re-sit?

Bhakti (14:33)
Yeah. Even Sydney campus had to redo it. But luckily, all four of us in my little bootcamp study group got in, which was nice.

Mare Forfa (14:51)
Oh, I remember calling you—we just screamed at each other down the phone. That was so great.

Bhakti (14:54)
Literally. We just screamed “Yay!”

Mare Forfa (15:04)
So no matter the format—panel, CASPer-style, or MMI—preparation is everything. These are skills you learn and repeat, so when interview day comes, you just perform.

Bhakti (15:31)
Exactly.

Mare Forfa (15:33)
So, let’s think about the types of questions that come up over and over. What do you see the most?

Bhakti (15:42)
No matter the format—panel, MMI or CASPer—the same general style questions appear. For example: “Why do you want to be a doctor?” “Tell us about a time you resolved a conflict.” Or ethical ones like, “What would you do if a fellow student was cutting corners on placement?” They’re testing ethics, communication, teamwork, empathy. Essentially: what are you like as a medical student and future doctor?

Mare Forfa (16:36)
For sure. I ask students all the time, “Why do you want to be a doctor?” and 80–90% say the same thing: “I like helping people, I like science.” Generic, vanilla answers. Please don’t say that in the interview.

Bhakti (16:49)
Yeah. Generic.

Mare Forfa (17:06)
Not saying it’s untrue—if you don’t want to help people, don’t become a doctor! But if that’s your only reason, it’s not enough. There are lots of professions where you can help people and love science. You need to dig deeper. Because in med school, you’ll face huge challenges and want to give up. If “helping people” is your only reason, the uni will wonder if you’ll persevere. Medicine isn’t a job, it’s a lifestyle.

Bhakti (18:50)
Yeah, definitely.

Mare Forfa (18:56)
And sometimes knowing what not to say is just as important as what to say. You need to articulate your true motivation clearly. Remember, you might be competing with 300 people for 150 spots. How will you stand out as memorable, not just another vanilla answer?

Bhakti (19:30)
Yeah, exactly.

Mare Forfa (19:32)
So, what are interviewers actually looking for?

Bhakti (19:37)
Yeah. So as I said, you don’t want to fake what you’re saying or script everything just to tick boxes. They can tell from your responses what you’re like. Generally, they’re looking for emotional intelligence—big one. Genuine motivation to study medicine, beyond just “I want to help people” or “I love anatomy.” Because, as we’ve said, med school is hard, being a doctor is hard. You need something deeper driving you.
They’re also looking for communication skills and reasoning. That’s been drilled into us constantly at med school. Communication, being emotionally present, reasoning through problems. Professionalism is another big one, which is why you get scenario-based questions. And resilience. Med school is not easy, and neither is being a doctor.

Mare Forfa (21:03)
Oh yeah. And as a doctor, sometimes you’ll be giving people terrible news. You need resilience to say, “Okay, what’s next? How do we move forward?”

Bhakti (21:10)
Exactly. They also want to see if you can deal with complex situations and ethical challenges. It’s not always black and white—yes or no. There will be multiple factors, competing needs, and you’ll need to weigh them all. That’s what they’re looking for. Sure, med school will teach you the finer points, but they want to see if you already have the baseline ability to reason through complexity with compassion.

Mare Forfa (22:08)
I remember a student I had, Zach. In bootcamp, we taught medical ethics—the dos and don’ts. We gave a practice question that, to me, had a clear right and wrong. Zach chose the “wrong” answer, not what I personally would have done. But the way he explained his reasoning, how he handled the ethical tension—it made sense. I could follow his logic. That’s the point: it’s not always about the “correct” choice. It’s about your reasoning.

Bhakti (22:58)
Yeah.

Mare Forfa (23:08)
It’s: here’s what I’d do, and here’s why. That’s how you show reasoning, ethical awareness, emotional intelligence—all of it together. Tom told me when he was an MMI interviewer, they weren’t trying to trick people.
They’d gather before starting, all the interviewers, and do a little huddle. They had clear marking criteria. He said none of them were like, “Let’s see who we can fail today.” It was the opposite.

Bhakti (23:37)
Mm. Hello.

Mare Forfa (24:04)
Interviewers weren’t allowed to encourage candidates—they couldn’t nod or say “you’re on the right track.” They had to stay neutral so everyone got the same chance. So they’d often sit with blank faces. But in their heads they were cheering you on: “Come on, you can do it, you’re nearly there.” They’re humans too. They just want to see how you think, whether you can stay calm, reason clearly, and reflect honestly. If you can do that, you’re halfway there.

Bhakti (24:37)
Exactly. It’s like the GAMSAT—it feels like it’s you against them. But interviews aren’t that. They’re genuinely rooting for you if they see you’re a good candidate. They’re not trying to catch you out.

Mare Forfa (25:12)
Even just going in with that mindset helps: no one’s against me, no one’s trying to trip me up. If I mess up, that’s on me. Doesn’t necessarily remove the pressure, but it’s good to know they want you to succeed.

Bhakti (25:17)
Yeah, exactly.

Mare Forfa (25:40)
I always tell bootcamp members: if you’re going to make up a story about what the interviewers are thinking, make it a positive one! Why not? So, what’s the best way to prepare?

Bhakti (25:48)
It’s tricky, because you don’t want to over-plan or over-structure. But having frameworks you can use as a guide is so important. If you waffle, you’ll run out of your five minutes without even answering the question. Structures give you a way to keep it clear and concise, while still sounding natural. You’re not scripting, you’re just making sure your answer has a beginning, middle, and end.

Mare Forfa (27:21)
It’s like the essay section in the GAMSAT. If you just write without structure, you usually don’t make your point. But if you’ve got intro, body, conclusion—that structure encourages creativity. Without it, you go all over the place. Same with interviews: if you have a step-by-step, you’re freer to be creative, because you’re not worrying about where to go next.

Bhakti (27:25)
Exactly.

Mare Forfa (28:20)
So in interviews, I teach people to use sentence starters as steps. For example, “The issues to consider are…” Then list them. It gives structure and shows you’ve thought it through. Step-by-step processes let you be creative but also stay on track. That’s where the marks are.

Bhakti (28:49)
Exactly. I love structure too. And again, it’s not memorising scripts. It’s frameworks you can adapt. You’re still yourself, not a robot.

Mare Forfa (29:38)
Exactly. In med school too—you don’t walk into a consultation and just wing it. You’ve got structures, but you adapt to each patient. Interviews are the same.

Mare Forfa (29:38)
Nah. I remember this year—maybe I mentioned it in bootcamp, maybe not—we had members reflect on why they wanted to be a doctor. Even if the question isn’t asked directly, knowing that in your bones gives you motivation. But we never make people memorise scripts because Murphy’s Law—on the day, they’ll never ask the one you’ve memorised.
For example, Wollongong once asked candidates to watch a video of someone talking about why they wanted to be a doctor, then reflect on it. If you’d only memorised a canned answer, you’d be stuffed. But if you really know your “why,” you can adapt to any format.

Bhakti (31:12)
Exactly. That’s the thing with scripts—you might think they’ll protect you, but they don’t. The point is to understand yourself, know why you want to be a doctor, and speak your truth. It doesn’t need to be extravagant, just authentic.
Even ethical scenarios are like that—they’re not asking “Do you have empathy?” directly, but they’re testing it. Same with teamwork, leadership, communication. You can’t fake those with a script.

Mare Forfa (32:20)
For sure. And if you’re just memorising, you’re missing the point of practising out loud. So many students tell me they’ve prepared by reading questions and thinking about answers. Then I ask, “Out loud?” and they say no. That’s like an athlete saying, “I’ve watched a lot of swimming videos.” Get in the pool!

Bhakti (32:51)
Exactly! And it’s not just about content, it’s about delivery. You can have the perfect response written down, but if you sound nervous, flat, or awkward on camera, it won’t land. Talking confidently to a webcam takes practice.
Same with group prep—record yourself, get feedback, practise under timed conditions. That builds the “muscle” you need so on the day you’re ready.

Mare Forfa (33:48)
Yes. And watching yourself back is horrendous—we’re our own worst critics—but it helps. You can’t spot blind spots alone. And please don’t pick your meanest friend to practise with. Work with people who understand the process and can give constructive feedback. Coaches are invaluable for this.

Bhakti (34:34)
Yeah, that was huge for me. At first I practised solo, which was fine for a while, but eventually I plateaued. You can’t mark yourself, because you don’t know what you don’t know. Then I started practising with three others in my bootcamp group—we met every other day, timed ourselves, gave feedback. It was constructive, and it built my confidence.
And then with mock interviews at bootcamp, we had experts giving feedback on tough questions. That was gold. 80% of success comes from prep, 20% from the day itself. Preparation reduces stress massively.

Mare Forfa (36:09)
Exactly. And for context, in the Interview Bootcamp we start with four online training modules—step-by-step strategies, frameworks, medical ethics, types of questions, and how to answer them. Frameworks and structures are everything. Then you practise building rapport quickly, which is a one-percenter skill that gives you an edge.
We also give access to real panel and MMI questions. Then, as Bhakti said, we group bootcamp members into pods of about four, encouraging daily or every-other-day practice in the short time between interview invite and interview day.

Bhakti (37:31)
Yeah.

Mare Forfa (37:35)
Twice a week we run mini mocks—members bring their toughest questions, and interview specialists give live feedback. That’s where the magic happens. And then there’s support in our Slack channel, plus a video library. It’s a whole program designed for the most challenging step of getting into medicine. People think GAMSAT is the hardest part. It’s not—wait until the interviews.

Bhakti (38:38)
And then you get into med school and it’s like drinking from a firehose. Laugh or you’ll cry.

Mare Forfa (39:02)
Exactly. Bootcamp means you’re never doing it alone. It’s one of the hardest things you’ll ever do, but with support it’s manageable. Last year, 100% of our GAMSAT Bootcamp members who did Interview Bootcamp got in.

Bhakti (39:19)
Yeah. Everyone I studied with got in.

Mare Forfa (39:31)
I’m so proud of that. Two reasons: one, the way we prepared students worked. Two, everyone put the work in. In pods, no one wanted to let their group down, so everyone showed up. That peer accountability pushed people to practise more, and it paid off.

Bhakti (40:00)
Absolutely. And for introverts, interviews feel terrifying—you think you’re doomed. I’m introverted too. But Bootcamp helped with more than just answers. They workshopped tone, projection, body language, eye contact. Interviews aren’t just about what you say; they’re about how you present. That training made a huge difference.

Mare Forfa (41:46)
I remember one year, around COVID when everything went online. Suddenly no one knew how to set up cameras or lighting. We’d been working online for 15 years, so I knew how important it was. One of my bootcamp members—lovely guy, very ASD—brilliant mind, will make an excellent doctor, but his communication was robotic and flat.
He put a lamp directly under his face. It lit him up like a horror movie. He asked, “Is this right?” I was like, mate, you look terrifying. Let’s move the lamp up here instead. He got in that year, once he learned those simple presentation tweaks. Practical tools can make all the difference—tonality, when to smile, how to greet. Even little questions like, “Do I acknowledge Country at the start of every answer?” come up. Those details matter.

Bhakti (43:30)
Yeah. Exactly. It’s not just answers—it’s the whole package. Body language, facial expressions, tone. Bootcamp helped develop all that too.

Mare Forfa (43:36)
So, what happens after the interview? You’ve smashed it—now what?

Bhakti (43:41)
Timeline-wise, it varies each year. They never just give us one neat date. Offers usually come out around early November, standardised by GEMSAS. When mine came out, Reddit went wild—everyone refreshing the thread. Last year they even released them alphabetically by uni: ANU first, then Deakin, and so on.

Mare Forfa (44:08)
It’s agony—like, “No rush, just whenever you’re ready”… but really, rush!

Bhakti (45:20)
Offers also come in rounds. If you don’t get Round 1, you might get Round 2 or even Round 3. Some unis go up to Round 4.

Mare Forfa (45:28)
I’ve seen Round 4. One of my old tutors, Zach, didn’t get an offer until mid-January. He’d taken his kids on holiday up to Queensland, thinking it was over. Then he got an offer and had to start uni in two days. He literally drove overnight back to Sydney, dropped his wife at the uni door with the kids, and started classes. That’s med school life for you.

Bhakti (45:58)
If that isn’t peak med school, I don’t know what is.

Mare Forfa (46:35)
Exactly. It’s not over until it’s really over. Even in the first week of uni, some people still get late offers. Don’t expect it, but be ready.

Bhakti (47:06)
Yeah. Most students don’t feel amazing after interviews anyway. You never really know. We’re not saying hang all your hopes on Round 3, but don’t give up too early either. If not this year, then next. Many in my cohort had interviewed multiple times before getting in.

Mare Forfa (47:53)
Yes. If you don’t get in, start prepping for the next GAMSAT anyway. Murphy’s Law—if you start studying again, you’ll probably get an offer. But if you sit back waiting and don’t prepare, that’s when you’ll miss out.
And if you don’t get in, you need to look at why. If you’ve got a 75 GAMSAT and a 6.8 GPA, it was probably the interview. If you’ve got a 67 and a 6.2, then it’s a combo—it all adds up.

Bhakti (48:53)
Exactly. Sometimes people bounce back after a bad GAMSAT attempt, but with interviews, people give up too quickly. But honestly, the only people who don’t get into med are those who stop trying. Lots of my peers sat interviews multiple times before succeeding. Each attempt teaches you, so the next one is easier.

Mare Forfa (49:46)
Yes! Keep going. Your Plan B will never be as good as Plan A, so don’t stop. Just don’t repeat the same prep that didn’t work. Change it up. I had a student, Shams—her first year she told me she wanted to be a doctor “to help people.” I asked, “What are you doing right now to help people?” and she said, “Nothing.” She didn’t get in.
Next year, she came back, joined Bootcamp, and told me she’d started an NDIS business in the meantime. She hired a team of 10, genuinely helping people. When she said in her interview that she wanted to take that to the next level, it was authentic. She got in that year. That’s action.

Bhakti (51:35)
Exactly. Doing the same thing over and over without change is insanity, as someone—Einstein, maybe—once said. But it’s true.

Mare Forfa (52:24)
Exactly. Learn the lesson, change your approach, get different results. And above all—don’t stop trying.
So, I think that’s a wrap on today’s interview overview. If you’re heading into interviews, Bhakti and I want you to hear this: you’ve got this.

Bhakti (52:50)
You’ve got this.

Mare Forfa (52:51)
Go do it! If you want guidance, support, or feedback, we’re here for you. Subscribe so you don’t miss future episodes. If you found this helpful, please share it. You’re never alone on this journey—we’re here to help.

Mare Forfa (50:15)
Don’t just keep doing what didn’t work last time. Try something different. Like my student Shams—she shifted her actions, aligned them with her words, and got in. That’s what makes the difference.

Bhakti (52:10)
Exactly. Doing the same thing over and over expecting different results is madness—Einstein, or someone like that, said it. But it’s true.

Mare Forfa (52:24)
Exactly. Learn the lesson, make changes, and you’ll get different outcomes. Most importantly, don’t stop trying.
So, that’s a wrap on today’s interview overview. If you’re heading into interviews, Bhakti and I want you to hear this: you’ve got this.

Bhakti (52:50)
You’ve got this.

Mare Forfa (52:51)
Go do it! If you want guidance, support, or feedback, we’re here for you. Subscribe so you don’t miss any future episodes. And if you found this helpful, please share it with someone else. You’re never alone on this journey—we’re here to help. Bye for now.
Okay, Bhakti, what do you reckon we should do for hooks?

Bhakti (53:18)
Awesome. I actually think “100% of people who don’t get in are the ones who stop trying” is a great hook. But let me check a couple of others…
Maybe something like: “Here are the mistakes to avoid,” or “If you’ve got an interview, this is what not to do.” Or: “This is what I wish I knew before my interview.”

Mare Forfa (53:43)
That sounded super natural for you—confident, not too serious. Exactly the tone. Even if you pause or stumble, just breathe and keep going. We’re human.

Bhakti (54:01)
Yeah. I had it written down, but I want it to sound natural. Hooks should be short, snappy—five to ten seconds max. Straight to the point. Like: “This will save you massive headaches around your interview.” Or: “Here’s what they’re actually looking for.”

Mare Forfa (55:41)
How to best prepare: use structures and frameworks. Number one—don’t memorise scripts, they won’t help. Practise out loud—none of this silent reading. And work with a coach or group to get feedback, fast.

Bhakti (56:13)
This is what I wish I knew before I started preparing for interviews.

Mare Forfa (56:28)
That quick? Perfect.

Bhakti (56:28)
Yeah—super snappy. Within ten seconds, people should know exactly what the reel is about. Let me do one more.

Mare Forfa (57:01)
Here’s what they’re looking for: emotional intelligence, genuine motivation—don’t just say “helping people”—plus communication, reasoning, professionalism, resilience, and the ability to handle complex and ethical challenges. Because this will be hard.

Bhakti (57:36)
Or I could say: “If you’ve just gotten an interview, this is how to best prepare: structures and frameworks. Don’t memorise scripts. Practise out loud. And get feedback from a coach or group to make sure you’re on the right track.”

Mare Forfa (58:05)
Perfect. Nailed it.

Bhakti (58:07)
Cool. I think those were good. Thumbnail time.

Mare Forfa (58:22)
Oh my god. Done and dusted. Thank you. Safe travels to Brisbane!

Bhakti (58:26)
Perfect. Thank you.